Episode 282 · The Ben Avery Era
#282 - Lex Fridman | The Tim Dillon Show
with Lex Fridman
Jan 4, 2022 · 1:48:13 · 1,500,000 views · 29 segments, 185 moments indexed
Tim has on Lex Fridman in Austin, TX to discuss why Ghislaine and Jeffrey were in love, Robert Maxwell's ties to intelligence, Elon Musk's sense of humor, who Jack Dorsey really is, the future of blockchain technology, and what actually…
Watch on YouTubeDiscuss on Reddit
- 4 min
Tim opens by asking Lex Fridman how he lands top-tier guests like Elon Musk and Richard Dawkins. Lex explains the role of family and friends recommending the show, then Tim tells a long story about acting as a cab driver in an over-produced, lawyer-heavy internal sketch for the CEO of NBC Universal.
6moments
- Lex Fridman's podcast consistently books top-tier guests across robotics, technology, science, and physics.
- Lex explains his booking strategy: someone close to the guest is already a fan, creating momentum through personal recommendation.
- Tim spent time with an NBC Universal CEO who hired him as a comedic actor for an internal sketch featuring a cab driver character.
- The CEO's entire life was tightly structured—lawyer and personal assistant always present, script went through 10-15 rewrites for a simple sketch.
- Tim ad-libbed a joke about being the last white cab driver in New York, causing the CEO to panic and check with his lawyers.
- Lex observes that the heavy legal oversight and rigid structure Tim described is toxic for genuine conversation.
- 7 min
Lex explains why he prefers renting and the freedom of not owning property, leading into a debate with Tim about whether ownership limits freedom and whether everyone has something they love, or whether some people are simply not complex.
9moments
- Tim doesn't own real estate and prefers renting for the freedom it provides.
- Real life trends sound like comedy because they're so absurd, but they're actually happening.
- Valuing freedom and valuing love aren't in conflict—house ownership becomes limiting only when people get comfortable and soft.
- Tim wants the freedom to walk away tomorrow and start a company elsewhere, like a cool guy not looking back at explosions.
- Tim's business is making people happy, and problems are essential to that work.
- Utopians hate comedy because they believe pain can be eliminated, but Tim sees pain as permanent and comedy as relief from it.
- Tim bought a house responsibly but felt its weight, and that experience helps him understand what his audience carries.
- Houses and families slow you down, but sometimes that slowing is artificial—just in your mind, not a real constraint.
- There's no reason you can't sell the house if you want to; the limitation is self-imposed.
- 5 min
Tim uses Buc-ee's convenience stores and their popular fried nuggets as an example of simple people who are happy without grand ambitions, pushing back on Lex's belief that everyone can find something to love and chase.
9moments
- Tim argues that people use lack of money as an excuse to avoid taking bold action and leaving jobs, marriages, or houses they dislike.
- Haven't you ever met stupid people? Tim pushes back on the idea that everyone can discover something they love.
- Tim points out the contradiction: his guest claims to be a simple person while wearing a suit, having a robot on his floor, and interviewing billionaires.
- Tim was at Buc-ee's yesterday, where people buy Buc-ee's nuggets—essentially junk food—and eat them on their couch.
- Those Buc-ee's nugget people fundamentally have different values than the guest, yet the guest insists they could discover a deeper purpose.
- If someone says they love Buc-ee's nuggets and their couch, Tim notes, asking them to do what they love would yield that answer.
- Not everybody is meant to live an examined life; many people are quite happy without constant self-reflection and philosophical questioning.
- Tim identifies a core disagreement: society gives vague advice that people's lives aren't meaningful unless they pursue a deep dream or passion.
- We tell people their life is not valid or meaningful unless they have a dream to pursue and a journey to follow.
Joe RoganBuc-ee's
- 4 min
They discuss David Goggins-style extreme motivation as inspiration rather than obligation, then Lex describes a Russian-speaking friend who finds happiness in mundane domestic routines, paralleling his own love of organizing spreadsheets.
5moments
- Tim questions who David Goggins-style extreme motivation is actually for, and argues it mainly serves as a wake-up call rather than universal advice.
- Tim has been practicing Russian and joked about being hired at the FSB without speaking the language.
- An older Russian woman Tim spoke with said her happiness comes from making dinner, putting her kids to bed, and sitting at the kitchen table knowing everything is done and perfect.
- Tim describes his own form of happiness as being good at whatever he takes on, particularly organizing—spreadsheets, data, and scheduling things.
- Some relationships are genuine love while others are successful business arrangements, which Tim finds interesting as a distinction.
- 3 min
Lex expands on love as something broader than romance, including friendship and appreciating nature, and connects it to the role successful partners play behind figures like Rogan and Goggins.
7moments
- Friendship is like penguins huddling together amidst unfairness and cruelty in the world.
- Love means sitting at a kitchen table or looking at a tree and appreciating to be alive.
- Tim observes that hanging around Rogan and Goggins with their wives shows how much of their success depends on those relationships.
- Success tastes best and feels best when you get to share it with people you love.
- A happy life requires an inner circle of people you love getting excited about things together.
- Tim compares Jeffrey and Ghislaine Maxwell's relationship to his guest's marriage, suggesting they were deeply in love.
- Nothing bonds people like doing evil on the world together.
- 2 min
Tim provocatively asks whether Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell had a genuine, valid love, comparing it to love of nation, and brings up Hitler as another example of powerful but destructive love.
6moments
- Tim jokes about having to claim love of nation, asking which nation and then quickly adding he's American through and through for the televised podcast in Austin.
- He proposes shooting guns and wearing a cowboy hat to sell the American brand, then asks if they can edit out the part where he spoke Russian.
- Tim describes growing up in the Soviet Union with powerful nationalist propaganda, calling the Soviet national anthem the greatest ever written and playing it in the car with Ben.
- Comparison of national anthems: the American anthem is polite and proud, while the Soviet anthem declares dominance—'we're the baddest on this planet.'
- Tim notes the Soviet Union collapsed despite its anthem's boasts about being indestructible, and they changed the anthem afterward.
- Love is described as a very powerful and blinding force, which connects to how propaganda works on populations.
Adolf HitlerSoviet UnionAmerican propaganda
- 7 min
Lex, drawing on growing up in the USSR, contrasts centralized Soviet propaganda with the competing, decentralized narratives of American media, including the Soviet national anthem's braggadocio versus the humbler American anthem.
11moments
- American propaganda is better because capitalism does everything great, even propaganda.
- Propaganda is narratives sustained through media, Hollywood, and sports that shape belief systems.
- Mainstream media created narratives pushing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
- American obsession with individualist freedom makes propaganda take weird, competing forms instead of centralizing.
- Alex Jones and CNN compete for money with different narratives, making people constantly skeptical.
- Media is a dead animal on the side of the road and people like him are vultures sustaining themselves from it.
- Tech companies create real danger of re-centralizing control, threatening the competing narratives.
- During COVID, people were banned, demonetized, and lost careers for having different opinions.
- Robert Malone, one of the mRNA vaccine creators, was banned from Twitter for having an opinion.
- In 12 months, mentioning the lab origin theory went from getting you exiled to becoming mainstream belief.
- Zuckerberg wants to be seen as a good guy and is malleable, which makes him a problem without fixed values.
Mark ZuckerbergJack DorseyRobert MaloneAlex JonesJoe RoganSoviet UnionTwitterChina+3 more
- 5 min
They discuss censorship on social media, Robert Malone's Twitter ban, and Tim's theory that Zuckerberg's desire to be seen as good makes him dangerously malleable, while Jack Dorsey is framed as a genuine free-speech believer.
9moments
- Zuckerberg's constant desire to be liked makes him vulnerable to shifting with public opinion rather than standing by principles.
- Controlling one of the world's largest information exchanges while having a basic human need for approval is far more dangerous than a comedian wanting to be liked.
- Jack Dorsey likely left Twitter because he sensed the impossible tension between running a platform and maintaining personal integrity.
- Twitter under Dorsey had some underlying belief in freedom of opinion exchange, though execution wasn't always consistent.
- Every social media platform that claims to support free speech has to draw a line somewhere, which becomes a slippery slope.
- Lines should exist for obvious harms like child exploitation and doxxing, but political lines are where the real problem emerges.
- The dangerous part isn't drawing lines but drawing them with arrogance instead of humility about what you actually understand.
- Platforms could justify removing content about ivermectin by citing pandemic mortality, but that requires acknowledging uncertainty about solutions.
- It's unclear whether a company at Facebook or Twitter's scale can operate with genuine humility and constantly ask if they're doing the right thing.
- 5 min
Lex explains why big tech companies tend toward monopoly through acquisition and loss of urgency, and they discuss the failure of alternative platforms like Parler to be anything but a hate-filled bubble, landing on the idea that a little bit of contention and hate is necessary.
9moments
- Tim asks why monopolies seem inevitable despite America having smart, capable people in tech.
- Argues that big companies acquire startups the moment they become successful, which prevents competition.
- States he would never sell a company if he started one, and believes entrepreneurs who commit to their ideas can create a real market of competing platforms.
- When companies sell to Facebook, they lose control and their original idea gets perverted to fit someone else's profit model.
- The urgency of potentially going bankrupt is what keeps startups sharp—something big companies lose and can never fully recreate.
- The free speech contingent doesn't appreciate how complex content moderation actually is, dealing with violence, threats, and foreign manipulation.
- Parler promised freedom of speech but ended up being a crazy bubble where most things aren't based in reality.
- Tim's campaign: 'A Little Bit of Hate'—you need some hate and contention on platforms, not wholesale removal of it.
- People with different ideas need to be able to fight it out without being forced to use one mandatory service or another.
AmazonMark ZuckerbergFacebookParlerElon MuskJack DorseySteve Jobs
- 1 min
A short aside comparing Tim's raspy voice to Tom Waits and the piano-playing old man character in Shrek.
2moments
- Tim compares himself to the raspy-voiced tavern pianist from Shrek
- Tim jokes that his final form is becoming Tom Waits, or just a piano
Tom Waits
- 1 min
Tim reads a sponsor spot for Keeps, describing FDA-approved hair loss medications delivered to your door and directing listeners to keeps.com/timdillon for a free first month.
3moments
- Two out of three men will experience hair loss by age 35, and more than 50 million Americans suffer from male pattern baldness.
- Keeps offers virtual doctor consultations and medications delivered to your door every three months for as low as $10 per month.
- Treatment takes 4 to 6 months to see results, so act fast.
- 2 min
Tim and Lex read a BetterHelp ad about online counseling accessibility, with Tim mentioning he personally uses the service, directing listeners to betterhelp.com/timd for 10% off.
1moment
- Tim says he uses BetterHelp himself.
- 8 min
Lex breaks down blockchain as a tamper-proof ledger, explains Bitcoin's proof-of-work system and its grounding in physical reality via mining, and covers Ethereum, smart contracts, and figures like Vitalik Buterin and Satoshi Nakamoto's anonymity.
11moments
- Tim explains crypto interests him zero for money—what excites him is the underlying technology, not investment returns.
- Bitcoin is grounded in physical reality through proof of work, with a finite supply and no government control, though transactions are slow and expensive.
- Layer two technologies like the Lightning Network solve Bitcoin's speed problem by sitting on top of it for fast payments like dinner transactions.
- Blockchain is basically a database—a way to store data that cannot be falsified or attacked because many people monitor it with consensus mechanisms.
- Breaking a glass is permanent and unchangeable; blockchain brings that same reliability to digital space, making records impossible to modify or fake.
- Ethereum blockchain hosts most NFTs being sold right now, with Vitalik as its figurehead and the protocol evolving toward Ethereum 2.0.
- Bitcoin's creator Satoshi Nakamoto remains anonymous, though people increasingly speculate it must be one of a small group—the anonymity itself is powerful.
- Smart contracts let people use blockchain to make agreements and exchange assets the same way traditional contracts work between people.
- Proof of work requires computers to solve cryptographic puzzles through massive computational effort, which makes it extremely difficult to fake Bitcoin.
- Tim notes that mining Bitcoin profitably is getting less and less possible, and says China recently banned mining operations.
- Tim admits he's not paying much attention to where major mining facilities are located amid regulatory changes.
Bitcoinblockchain technologyEthereumsmart contractsCharles HoskinsonVitalikSatoshi NakamotoCardano+3 more
- 3 min
Discussion of Bitcoin mining's move out of China, its environmental cost, and the argument that its societal benefits outweigh the environmental downsides, similar to other costly-but-valuable human activities.
8moments
- China banned cryptocurrency mining, forcing operations to relocate globally, including to Austin and South America.
- Elon made environmental concerns about Bitcoin mining public, claiming the process needs to be greener.
- Bitcoin proponents argue the environmental cost is outweighed by benefits, comparing it to driving cars and eating meat.
- Bitcoin advocates see cryptocurrency as a way to revolutionize the monetary system and prevent government control through inflation.
- Tim notes Bitcoin enables funding for wars, gain-of-function research, and disease research that leaks out.
- Tim wrestles with whether to have Fauci on the podcast, who only offered 15 minutes instead of three hours.
- Tim acknowledges Fauci accomplished significant things, like addressing AIDS, before comparing him to Hitler as 20th-century man of the century.
- Bill Gates is buying up all the farmland, and Tim suspects a connection between Gates and Fauci as 'disease freaks.'
- 2 min
Whether Fauci Will Ever Do the Podcast, and the Fauci-Hitler Bit
#Tim reveals Fauci wants only 15 minutes instead of 3 hours, then launches into a riff calling Fauci an Italian 'vaccine Hitler' obsessed with diseases, joking about his AIDS work and comparing him to Mussolini-esque criminal stereotypes.
5moments
- Pandemic researchers get too excited about diseases, like gazing into an abyss that gazes back.
- Tim claims Fauci being Italian is a fundamental problem—Italians are criminals better suited to running pizzerias than government.
- In government, Italians get too much power to steal; in a pizzeria, they can only steal a little cash and feel good about it.
- Tim calls Fauci a power-crazed Hitler.
- Tim wraps up by saying Fauci did a terrible job as a political leader during the pandemic response and doesn't represent science.
- 1 min
Bill Gates, Epstein's Island, and the Fauci Snub Joke
#Continuing the bit, Tim jokes that Bill and Melinda Gates' divorce relates to Epstein's Island, and that Fauci wasn't even cool enough to be invited there.
2moments
- Tim recalls the "Vaccine Hitler" nickname for Fauci from earlier in the conversation.
- Bill and Melinda Gates got divorced because Bill was on Epstein's Island.
- 3 min
Lex distinguishes belief in crypto's transformative technology from cultish investment mania, and they discuss how humor and self-deprecation (citing the Winklevoss twins, Gary Vee, and Elon) keep believers grounded.
9moments
- Cryptocurrency supporters often exhibit cultish aspects and lack humility.
- Tim explains why humor is essential—to poke fun at things and avoid taking yourself too seriously.
- Humor's core function is to take down sacred cows, which doesn't invalidate what makes them sacred.
- Humor makes things accessible and takes kings off thrones.
- Tim values smart people acting silly over silly people acting smart.
- Elon Musk, despite everything else, is ridiculously silly and pokes the bear without getting defensive.
- Tim doubts Elon even knows who he is or cares about being made fun of.
- Elon does dad jokes and silly memes while Tim does darker material like tweets about Ghislaine Maxwell and Kim Jong Un.
- Tim jokingly describes himself as fat-forward and progressive on fatness.
- 7 min
Lex expresses worry about autonomous drone warfare and the US-China AI arms race, then argues for understanding Chinese culture's different relationship to copying and innovation rather than reflexively condemning it, while Tim jokes about China 'disappearing' billionaires instead of toothless congressional hearings.
7moments
- Tim explains the US is developing autonomous weapon systems because China is, framing it as necessary for global good despite the ethical risks.
- Drones are far more effective at committing violence than robot dogs, which people associate emotionally with animals and humans.
- The progression from remote-controlled drones to fully autonomous systems that decide targets without human involvement is a slippery slope toward unethical outcomes.
- Tim cautions against American assumptions of moral superiority and argues for understanding other cultures on their own terms rather than judging them by Western standards.
- Chinese culture values copying and improving existing ideas differently than the US does; this isn't theft but a fundamentally different approach to innovation.
- Constantly accusing China of stealing creates unnecessary tension when the real concern should be understanding their perspective first.
- China handles billionaire problems by disappearing them for re-education rather than holding performative congressional hearings that go viral but change nothing.
Chinaautonomous weaponssurveillanceCongressUnited StatesMicrosoftBill GatesApple
- 3 min
They weigh China's centralized decision-making delivering real quality-of-life gains against Lex's deeper fear of a fear-driven self-censoring populace, then pivot into a discussion of Putin's intelligence and the geopolitical spy game.
6moments
- Tim's serious point: America seems impotent to control anyone with enough capital, unlike China.
- China's centralized decisions have improved quality of life and economy across the population rapidly.
- Tim's biggest worry with an overbearing government isn't billionaires disappearing—it's self-censorship overtaking the populace.
- Growing up in the Soviet Union gives a different understanding of Putin as a leader than Western perspectives do.
- The CIA was fomenting coups in Ukraine and encircling Russia; when Putin responded, the West called him a monster.
- Vladimir Putin is very good at the intelligence game being played in the shadows, which Tim says he doesn't like.
- 6 min
Lex reflects on Putin as an intelligent, historically fascinating figure who stabilized Russia's economy after the chaotic 90s, mourns Russia's cultural isolation from science and the West, and admits fear about what happens after Putin eventually steps down.
10moments
- Henry Kissinger was incredibly good at the geopolitical game of creating narratives to manipulate populations.
- Many people in Russia and the United States claim Putin is just a lucky idiot, but that's not true.
- Putin is fascinating as a historical figure because he's intelligent in conversation and can analyze geopolitics and history with dark humor.
- Twenty years in power has changed Putin, though it's unclear in which direction.
- The collapse of the Soviet Union in the 90s was true suffering and uncertainty—a really difficult time.
- Putin presided over significant economic recovery at the start of the 21st century, which is why many Russians see him as a powerful leader.
- Understanding Putin requires considering the context he operates in—the level of corruption all around him.
- The Soviet Union had so much love for mathematics, science, poetry, and music that cultural suffering created beautiful art.
- The future of Russia's political system when Putin steps down is scary and not good.
- Tim says he would have Putin as a guest and believes he would do it.
- 2 min
A comedic riff imagining Putin doing a podcast tour including Red Scare and Rogan, with confusion over naming the Russian Sputnik V vaccine versus China's Sinovac/Covaxin.
5moments
- Tim asks if Putin will do a podcast tour, starting with Joe Rogan.
- Tim suggested Joe Rogan be Putin's translator, noting Putin speaks English well but doesn't publicly.
- Putin would probably complain on Rogan that there's not enough love for the Russian vaccine.
- Tim admits he doesn't know what the Russian vaccine is called, only that it's "Sputnik 5 or whatever."
- Tim questions Ben's research competence when the wrong vaccine names keep coming up.
- 4 min
Tim reads the Raycon ad, riffing about earbuds not falling out even while shaking violently or in the rain, and directs listeners to buyraycon.com/tim for 15% off.
4moments
- Tim notes he shakes violently all the time, but Raycon earbuds never fall out of his ears.
- As people stroke out on the floor in coming months, at least they won't lose their ability to enjoy music with Raycons.
- If you're shaking uncontrollably in the rain with Raycons, you can listen to a little Toto.
- Tim can't leave his house without someone trying to kill him over not listening to their Mud Water recommendations.
- 1 min
Tim and Lex read the Mud Water ad for its new rest blend with ashwagandha and reishi, riffing about societal despair and loveless marriages being cured by the drink, directing listeners to mudwater.com/tim with code TIM.
2moments
- Tim pitches Mud Water as the solution to modern alienation, connecting poor sleep to loveless marriages, unfulfilling jobs, and spiritual emptiness.
- People exist as pod persons in a science experiment, waiting for the food and drinks they consume to ravage their bodies with cancer.
- 7 min
Tim lays out his theory that Ghislaine Maxwell's father Robert Maxwell's intelligence ties made her the operational brains behind Epstein's honeypot blackmail scheme, comparing it to historic CIA/mafia honey-trap operations and institutions like Bohemian Grove creating elite consensus.
11moments
- Ghislaine's father Robert Maxwell was in intelligence, making her family a generational intelligence operation.
- Epstein wasn't particularly brilliant but had exceptional understanding of people's weaknesses and how to exploit them for blackmail.
- Tim describes their operational roles: Epstein as public philanthropist and investor, Ghislaine as madam and access agent connecting him to powerful figures.
- The operation was a Mossad blackmail scheme designed to entrap and gain leverage over powerful politicians, though the CIA likely knew and approved it.
- Institutions like Skull and Bones and Bohemian Grove function to create consensus among the wealthiest and most powerful people, forming foreign and domestic policy.
- Whether it's Yale bonding, Bohemian Grove, or crimes on an island, these activities foster mutually assured destruction among a homogeneous ruling class.
- Ben is wearing a Harvard shirt given to him by a woman who is no longer fat after gastric bypass.
- Tim jokes that the true tragedy of Ghislaine Maxwell is losing out to automation as physical honeypot operations became less necessary in the digital world.
- Ghislaine's father is the subject of a book called 'Israel Super Spy' documenting his shadiness and suspected intelligence connections.
- The guest expresses wariness about labeling people as intelligence operatives because the temptation to see conspiracy is so strong.
- Intelligence organizations are exceptionally well-funded with large staffs but aren't staffed by the brightest; a C student willing to kill is as effective as an A student.
Ghislaine MaxwellJeffrey EpsteinCIASkull and BonesRobert MaxwellBohemian GroveCouncil on Foreign RelationsMossad+3 more
- 4 min
Lex pushes back on the Mossad/CIA theory, arguing intelligence agencies are large bureaucracies with factions rather than monolithic evil masterminds, while Tim maintains blackmail is a documented core intelligence tactic and points to Ghislaine's father's alleged Mossad ties.
7moments
- Tim argues that Epstein could have been simply one charismatic evil person rather than an intelligence operation
- Distinction between Epstein as a complete intelligence manufacture versus someone who became powerful individually and then attracted intelligence interest
- Intelligence agencies are bureaucracies with internal factions and fiefdoms, not monolithic entities
- The CIA works for billionaires and American corporate interests, overthrowing governments on their behalf
- The real question is scale—how many people are involved and how central is this activity to what the CIA actually does
- Comparison to Walmart: the core business looks benign, but power factions within make the real decisions
- Blackmail has been an essential part of intelligence recruitment and maintaining relationships with assets
- 6 min
They debate the shady, unproven connection between Les Wexner gifting Epstein massive real estate, with Tim arguing some 'conspiracy theories' just become the news, while contrasting this skepticism with QAnon's psychotic overreach and dismissive scientific arrogance.
9moments
- Tim suggests drugs as a solution to cynicism about powerful people controlling the world.
- You can't ignore Epstein's island, Manhattan mansion with recording equipment, and his sweetheart deal while he socializes with world leaders.
- Studying only the Epstein case leads to seeing devils everywhere—a problem Tim compares to QAnon.
- Epstein's charisma apparently deluded people who knew him, independent of money or access to women.
- Tim argues Epstein didn't need to be deployed by intelligence agencies; one charismatic person can cause significant damage.
- Intelligence agencies function as work-for-hire organizations serving wealthy interests rather than national security.
- Tim claims he could never be deluded by sex or money into losing integrity, though his guest jokes this is how Epstein operates.
- Les Wexner's unexplained gift of massive Manhattan real estate and other properties to Epstein raises unanswered questions.
- Wexner, Epstein's largest benefactor, has never been meaningfully questioned about his connection to a documented human trafficker.
Jeffrey EpsteinAlex JonesLes WexnerGhislaine MaxwellLimited Brands
- 4 min
Lex expresses being troubled that respected people lacked the integrity to see through Epstein's charisma, and jokingly wonders if Tim and Ben could themselves become the next Epstein and Maxwell, with Tim insisting nobody is gifting him an island.
8moments
- QAnon adherents got a few nuggets of truth and concocted Disney-esque stories about good and evil because they wanted life to have the clarity of religion.
- The scientific community has been disappointing with its arrogance, dismissing everything not narrowly defined as public policy as conspiracy theory.
- The CEO of Pfizer is actually a Greek guy who owns a struggling diner in Astoria, Queens, where he yells at his wife and nephews.
- Tim jokes that the answer for Pfizer's CEO is less listening to Lex Fridman and more getting people mozzarella sticks at his diner.
- Ben is essential for Tim to do what he does and is a kind, hard-working soul.
- Tim says Ben must be watched very closely, then notes that Jeffrey Epstein also wore a Harvard sweatshirt.
- Everyone must be surveilled, which Tim jokingly connects to liking the Chinese government.
- The Chinese are willing to do things we might not be willing to do, and that makes them hard to beat.
QAnon movementPfizerChinese governmentLex FridmanJeffrey EpsteinJFK Jr.Astoria, Queens
- 2 min
Tim compares the Pfizer CEO to a Greek diner owner yelling at his family, jokes about Ben needing to be surveilled like the Chinese government would, and notes China will be advertising on the podcast.
2moments
- Tim reads his favorite Bukowski poem, "Bluebird," which he says is exactly about his guest.
- Tim offers to read a poem in return for the one he just heard.
- 1 min
To close the show, Tim reads Bukowski's poem 'Bluebird' about suppressing one's inner tenderness, and Lex responds by reading a crude rap verse from Young Miami before they sign off.
2moments
- Tim confirms he's a Bukowski fan.
- Tim identifies Young Miami as the author of the crude verse.
Lex FridmanYoung MiamiCharles Bukowski