Episode 259 · The Ben Avery Era
#259 - Independence Day with Glenn Greenwald | The Tim Dillon Show
with Glenn Greenwald
Jul 4, 2021 · 1:16:53 · 356,000 views · 23 segments, 153 moments indexed
Tim has on Glenn Greenwald for an Independence Day special.
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- 2 min
Tim welcomes Glenn Greenwald and asks whether he's surprised by how controversial he's become; Greenwald explains that the anger comes from people who see him as a traitor to a faction rather than a lifelong opponent.
5moments
- Tim introduces Glenn Greenwald as one of seven journalists he believes still exist.
- Tim asks Greenwald if he's surprised by the intense backlash and controversy of the last year.
- Greenwald says he's been polarizing for a long time, but the anger intensified because people perceive him as switching factions.
- People who feel betrayed—those who thought he was on their side—tend to hate him most intensely.
- Greenwald acknowledges he's also been waging war on the dominant media sector since starting The Intercept, so the backlash is mutual.
- 5 min
Greenwald traces media deference to power from the Bush/Cheney war on terror era through the Trump years, arguing Trump 'broke the brains' of media and political elites and caused ideological reversals like Ann Coulter and Rachel Maddow flipping positions.
8moments
- Tim describes how mainstream media coddles people in power, depending on scoops and access for stories.
- Political figures like Ann Coulter and Rachel Maddow flipped their positions entirely based on who holds power, suggesting values mean nothing compared to the lust for viewers.
- Media deference to power in the Bush-Cheney era drove the speaker to stop practicing law and start writing about politics in 2005.
- The media's deference to the CIA and security state traces back to the Cold War and remains a huge pathology in modern journalism.
- Trump broke the brains of huge sectors of American society who believed conspiracy theories about the Kremlin controlling the US through blackmail.
- Belief in those conspiracies drove people to consider previously unethical actions now acceptable and urgent in order to stop Trump.
- Media and political elites aligned with the CIA, FBI, NSA, and neocons—agencies and figures devoted to undermining Trump—reshaping their entire worldview.
- Donald Trump became the singular figure through which political and financial elites understood the entire world.
- 4 min
Greenwald argues Trump was uniquely upsetting because he refused to play the role of a 'deceitful prettifying symbol' for American power, citing his Bill O'Reilly 'we kill people too' interview, and Tim jokes about why the CIA didn't just assassinate him like past figures.
8moments
- Trump was a radical deviation from expected presidential decorum, but his actual policies weren't far outside American political tradition.
- The U.S. government functions outside democratic accountability and insulates itself from elections regardless of who wins.
- Presidents are supposed to be deceitful, prettifying symbols for American power, capitalism, and imperialism—figures like Obama and Bush who put a respectable face on it.
- Trump was incapable of playing that role and had no desire to; he's a thrice-married gambling tycoon, not presidential material.
- When Bill O'Reilly challenged Trump on Putin, Trump responded by noting that America kills people too—stating the forbidden truth.
- The establishment was upset because Trump essentially defecated on the White House and vandalized the corridors of power representing American exceptionalism.
- Trump was an unpredictable tornado sweeping through Washington, destabilizing the certainty, money, and livelihoods of the establishment based there.
- The establishment didn't kill Trump the way they killed JFK, because controlling him was more useful than eliminating him.
Donald TrumpTrump administrationBill O'ReillyHillary ClintonBarack ObamaVladimir PutinGeorge W. BushJohn F. Kennedy
- 6 min
Discussion of whether Russiagate was a coordinated effort to remove Trump; Greenwald compares Trump's neutralization to how Julian Assange was contained rather than killed, and explains how a small grain of truth about Russian interference was blown into a manufactured conspiracy fed by CIA leaks.
7moments
- Tim asks whether Brennan, Clapper, and intelligence officials working to undermine Trump's presidency before inauguration constitutes a soft coup.
- They didn't kill Julian Assange like they used to kill people in the 60s—they just neutralized him by walking him in an embassy for eight years and now holding him in a UK prison without conviction.
- Trump was a weak president who got paralyzed by the concocted Russiagate scandal, which engulfed his presidency for four years and came entirely out of the CIA and FBI.
- Countries do interfere in each other's elections, including the US more than anybody else—Russians wanted to mess with the election, but they took a tiny grain of truth and exploded it into a manufactured conspiracy theory.
- Media outlets decided their duty was no longer to do journalism but to stop Trump, and they got fed leaks by the CIA designed to harm him without any critical analysis.
- Why didn't intelligence agencies just exert influence on Trump through adulation and institutional charm like they did with Obama, instead of dragging the country through Russiagate?
- Obama was an institutionalist who always appeased institutional power and made people feel subversive while actually just aggrandizing institutions of authority, so it was easy to mold him into the existing permanent power structure.
- 4 min
Greenwald contrasts Obama's easy co-option by the security state with Trump's inferiority-complex-driven hostility toward the CIA/FBI, including the Comey Steele dossier briefing and Trump's public feuding with intelligence agencies before inauguration.
7moments
- Trump's Queens background and inferiority complex toward Manhattan establishment shaped his hostility toward institutions.
- CIA and FBI worked against Trump starting in 2016 campaign; both prior CIA directors endorsed Hillary Clinton.
- Trump immediately turned against the CIA after winning, and they moved against him from the start.
- Trump mocked the CIA for claiming Russia won him the election, citing their Iraq weapons of mass destruction lie.
- Chuck Schumer warned Trump on Rachel Maddow that the CIA has six ways to get back at you if you mess with them.
- Most people don't understand what the CIA actually does or how it operates.
- The CIA functions as the enforcement arm of the military-industrial complex and deep state, paving the way for corporate and defense interests.
CIADonald TrumpJames ComeyChuck SchumerMichael HaydenRussia investigationSteele dossierHillary Clinton+4 more
- 2 min
Greenwald cites Chuck Schumer's warning to Trump on Maddow's show as a rare admission of the deep state's power, and Tim lays out his own theory of the CIA as the enforcement arm of a corporate/military elite; Greenwald largely agrees.
4moments
- Tim recommends reading post-WWII National Security State history, like The Devil's Chessboard, to understand American politics
- Chelsea Handler's book about espionage and Russian politics is surprisingly credible despite her lifestyle
- Tim notes that comedians who've spent careers talking about their penises are actually very good at counterintelligence
- Trump was a creation of Hollywood and a reality TV star, which made his political rise harder for that world to accept than an outsider candidacy
- 2 min
Tim asks how Greenwald deals with untrained pundits attacking him; Greenwald says mainstream comedy (Kimmel, Colbert) has become toothless resistance-liberal orthodoxy, and that Trump-era conformity has contaminated all of culture, including comedy and film.
5moments
- Tim traces his awareness trajectory: discovering the show about six months ago through Joe Rogan, then seeing grilling-weed content flood his social media everywhere.
- He realized there were still funny comedians—thought they'd all become Jimmy Kimmel types calling Jared Kushner names or Stephen Colbert doing crude Nancy Pelosi impressions about Trump.
- Mainstream comedy in the US is now pathetic, fear-driven, and trapped in stale, primitive orthodoxies—not only unfunny but completely corrupted.
- The corruption extends beyond comedy to every aspect of culture: films, art, and everything has been contaminated by the Trump years in a way few people have escaped.
- Watching any Hollywood escapist thing—award shows, anything—delivers the same resistance-imbecilic Twitter content with no escape from it anymore.
mainstream comedy in the United StatesJimmy KimmelStephen ColbertJoe Rogan Experience
- 2 min
Tim reads an ad for D-Chained's crypto platform, mocking its 'Winkle' and 'Elon' subscription tiers and the idea of paying to access an 'expert' founder.
4moments
- Tim insists crypto is easy to understand and makes total sense to everyone involved.
- Despite abundant information online about crypto, many people don't know how to get started or who to trust.
- D-Chained offers exclusive deals for Tim Dillon Show listeners: The Winkle at $4.99 a month and The Elon at $14.99 a month.
- The Elon tier includes D5 Made Simple crash course, market snapshots, and live weekly Q&A with D-Chain's founder Ed McCormick.
- 4 min
Tim promotes his stand-up set at Psycho Las Vegas, riffing on the metal band lineup (Danzig, Cannibal Corpse, I Hate God, Thievery Corporation) despite admitting he knows nothing about most of them.
9moments
- Tim explains that calling someone an 'expert' means they're geniuses you shouldn't have access to, but can get for $4.99 or $14.99 a month.
- For $14.99 a month you can call up the founder Ed McCormick directly, which proves the company is doing well because his time is valuable.
- Tim pitches innercircle.com as a way to get into crypto and support the show, claiming a five-dollar newsletter might get you laid if someone sees you talking about cryptocurrency.
- Psycho Las Vegas is described as what would happen if Hunter Thompson and Lemmy from Motorhead made a music festival, held August 20-22 at Mandalay Bay.
- Tim will perform an hour of stand-up comedy on August 21st at the festival.
- The lineup includes Emperor, Glenn Danzig, Cannibal Corpse, Wu-Tang Clan parts, and dengue fever, though Tim admits he doesn't know anything about these bands and doesn't care.
- When asked for personal stories with the bands, Tim stops himself and recounts seeing Marilyn Manson in a hotel lobby as a kid, not a room.
- Psycho Las Vegas is billed as the first post-pandemic indoor music festival with metalheads, described as definitely fully vaccinated.
- Tim says it's a great place to see dark music and dark comedy, directing listeners to vivacycle.com for tickets.
Psycho Las VegasEd McCormickMarilyn MansonWu-Tang ClanGlenn DanzigHunter S. ThompsonLemmyElon Musk
- 4 min
Greenwald describes visiting Assange in the embassy before his imprisonment, his physical and psychological deterioration from a decade without sunlight, and draws a parallel to his own past legal jeopardy over the Snowden and Brazil reporting.
9moments
- Julian Assange has been held hostage for 10 years and psychologically tortured, with no major media defending him.
- Last saw Julian in 2018 or 2019 at the embassy in London—he was lucid and in good spirits then.
- Assange hasn't been outside in 10 years, not even to walk around in the sun like prisoners in American jails get to do.
- Media defended Glenn Greenwald during Snowden reporting in 2013-2014 because he had one foot in their world at The Guardian.
- When Greenwald did investigative reporting in Brazil in 2019-2020, American media defended him against Bolsonaro's prosecution attempt.
- Julian Assange never had a foot in the media click, so they abandoned him entirely despite his case being a grave threat to press freedom.
- The same media that pranced around defending press freedom over Trump insulting Jim Acosta ignore the Assange indictment.
- Biden Administration's theory criminalizing Assange will criminalize investigative journalism if it succeeds.
- Brazil's far-right government used the same prosecutorial model against Greenwald that the US is now using against Assange.
Julian AssangeDonald TrumpJoe BidenEdward SnowdenJair BolsonaroNew York TimesDanzigThe Guardian+4 more
- 2 min
Greenwald argues mainstream journalists who postured as press-freedom defenders over Trump's mean tweets ignore the actual prosecution threat against Assange out of professional jealousy, since Assange broke more real stories than they did.
7moments
- American journalists who spent five years defending press freedom ignored Biden's prosecution of Julian Assange instead of protesting it.
- Tim identifies professional jealousy as the real reason: Assange broke more major stories than all corporate media drones combined.
- Assange's existence exposes what mainstream journalists actually are, which is why the CIA and FBI target him but not Wolf Blitzer or Jim Acosta.
- Politicians like AOC, Bernie Sanders, and Marjorie Taylor Greene represent the actual threat to power.
- Tim speculates Taylor Greene might have an autoimmune disorder but finds her entertaining and supports middle-aged women getting a little flighty and offensive.
- Gay culture shifted from fun to moralism, with activists now pushing library programs instead of living freely.
- Tim says it's not his job to help children in libraries understand their identity, and he doesn't want that responsibility.
Julian AssangeMarjorie Taylor GreeneJim AcostaWolf BlitzerAlexandria Ocasio-CortezBernie Sanders
- 4 min
Tim and Greenwald riff on how gay politics went from genuinely radical (Harvey Milk, Larry Kramer, AIDS activism) to institutional and moralistic; they also discuss the left and right both becoming exhausting mirror images of repressive control over sex and dating.
8moments
- Gay institutional politics represents the lowest point of liberal weakness and cringe.
- Harvey Milk and Larry Kramer represented genuinely subversive, radical gay politics.
- The trajectory of gay politics went from Larry Kramer to Pete Buttigieg.
- The right used to control private behavior and culture while the left was transgressive—Sinéad O'Connor ripping up the Pope's picture on SNL exemplified that.
- The cultural left now has more rules about dating, sex, and attraction than the Pope has encyclicals.
- Everything became abuse, everything became harassment—the left became the repressive movement the Evangelical right was in the 1980s.
- Tim doesn't care about trans women weightlifters competing in the Olympics or the culture war around it.
- Both the left and right have become exhausting with nothing new anymore.
Larry KramerSinéad O'ConnorHarvey MilkJerry FalwellMoral MajorityAndrew SullivanCaitlyn JennerPete Buttigieg+1 more
- 1 min
AOC, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Middle-Aged Women Going Feral
#Tim riffs on Marjorie Taylor Greene possibly having an autoimmune disorder and jokes that middle-aged women should be allowed to get 'flighty and nuts,' before pivoting to ask about pandemic-era technocracy.
2moments
- Trump at least brought new conversations to the table, unlike the circular pattern of current politics.
- Question on emerging from the pandemic: will we return to normal or slide toward technocracy with government control over personal health and body autonomy?
- 5 min
Greenwald argues the pandemic response ignored the costs of isolation on mental health and the economy, comparing the post-9/11 safetyism panic to COVID-era submission and the centralization of corporate and institutional power.
12moments
- COVID pandemic as the most transformative event of our lives, surpassing even 9/11 in enduring consequences.
- Original lockdown pitch in March-April 2020 was to flatten the curve for a few weeks, not months-long isolation.
- Trump and Boris Johnson recognized that locking people home would destroy the economy and cause mental health crises.
- Mental health pathology was already skyrocketing before the pandemic—suicide, depression, anxiety, addiction, alcoholism.
- Modern society strips away connectivity and purpose—no churches, synagogues, unions, just isolated bubbles with unfulfilling jobs.
- Mental health experts Johann Hari and Andrew Solomon said the cost of lockdown isolation will be at least as significant as COVID deaths themselves.
- Post-9/11 safetyism obsession: Americans willing to dismantle constitutional protections despite terrorist attack risk being lower than lightning strikes.
- Fear-driven compliance turned rugged conservatives into submissive populations accepting airport searches and government control.
- Children missed entire year of school during lockdowns—imagine the impact on hundreds of millions of kids worldwide.
- COVID centralized power in omnipotent institutions like Fauci and WHO; questioning them meant internet bans.
- Amazon, Google, and Walmart consolidated monopolistic power while small businesses died; country became nation of serfs and renters.
- Enduring political, cultural, and psychological effects of lockdowns will be deeper and longer than people realize.
COVID-19AmazonGoogleWalmartWorld Health OrganizationAnthony Fauci9/11 attackAndrew Solomon+3 more
- 2 min
Tim reads a Magic Spoon cereal ad, joking crudely about eating it through your ass and still getting zero sugar and four net carbs.
4moments
- Tim tells listeners to stop being fat while rattling off cereal flavors.
- Magic Spoon is a sugar cereal without any sugar, sweetened with monk fruit instead.
- What if cereal you liked was actually healthy for you — that's what Magic Spoon is.
- Even if you put it in your ass, it still has zero grams of sugar and four net carbs.
- 3 min
Tim tells an escalating, absurd story about meeting the (fictionalized) owner of Sheath Underwear in Colorado who is allegedly training his family and a militia for an upcoming 'race war,' repeatedly cutting back to the promo code.
7moments
- Tim meets Robert Patron, owner of Sheath Underwear, who pulls him aside to confess he's killed many innocent civilians and wants to do it again.
- Patron runs a militia in Colorado and is training his family for an upcoming race war.
- Patron says he's been preparing for years but America is finally catching up to his timeline.
- The militia conducts basic training, weapons training, hand-to-hand combat, and strategic assault planning.
- Patron's wife is also planning for the race war by cooking and preparing provisions for the group.
- Tim describes Patron's wife as a violent psychopath with a gun, calling her cooking for the militia "cleansing."
- Despite their extremism, Tim notes the Patron family genuinely loves comedy and he encourages supporting Sheath Underwear as a business that defends comedy.
- 4 min
Greenwald questions why 60-year-old JFK assassination files remain classified and suggests the FBI likely had informants inside the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers before January 6th, with Tim adding suspicions about staged chaos (Boston bombing, Capitol gate footage).
6moments
- Why are most CIA files on JFK's assassination still classified 60 years later, even though everyone involved is dead?
- The permanent National Security State constructed after WWII has done things that would shatter public confidence in institutions if revealed.
- The FBI clearly had informants in the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and Three Percenters involved in January 6th—the real question is why nobody wants those answers.
- At the Capitol riot, cops opened gates for people, pallets of bricks appeared on roads, and other forces seemed to want the chaos to escalate.
- The FBI knew who the Boston Marathon bombers were before the attack, allowed them to travel to Dagestan, then killed one of their closest friends to prevent him from talking.
- It functions like a mafia state—agencies eliminate witnesses and manufacture narratives rather than conduct legitimate investigations.
FBIJohn F. KennedyCIAProud BoysSaudi ArabiaDick CheneyJoe RoganOath Keepers+3 more
- 2 min
Greenwald parallels the post-Oklahoma City domestic terror panic (and Clinton's encryption backdoor demands) with today's manufactured domestic extremism narrative that keeps security agencies funded and powerful.
6moments
- January 6 resulted in the Capitol Police receiving two billion dollars in additional funding from Democrats.
- The government needs continuous scary threats to justify the growth and budgets of national security agencies, and old villains like Putin, ISIS, and Al Qaeda no longer serve that purpose.
- After the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, magazines like Time and Newsweek ran covers about white supremacists and militias as a huge danger.
- The Clinton administration demanded backdoor access to all encryption after Oklahoma City so the government could monitor internet communication.
- Every major incident strengthens the power centers involved in some way, and you can either assume incompetence or examine the history of what these institutions actually do.
- Tim suggests some events may be actively encouraged because of their consequences and who benefits from them.
Clinton administrationJanuary 6Capitol PoliceOklahoma City bombingAl-QaedaISISNewsweekTime Magazine+2 more
- 6 min
Greenwald describes AOC's radical original persona versus her current mainstream image, introduces Chris Hayes's 'cognitive capture' theory of elite institutions, and uses his congressman husband's experience in Brazil to explain how political compromise inevitably corrupts.
10moments
- AOC gets folded into mainstream American political culture and becomes everybody's favorite girl boss.
- Tim interviewed AOC in 2018 when she was unknown, running on radical positions including criticism of Israeli military actions in Gaza.
- The person Tim interviewed is completely unrecognizable from who AOC has become since then.
- Chris Hayes wrote "Twilight of the Elites" in 2011 with the thesis that Elite America has failed and has no valid claim to authority.
- Hayes's concept of cognitive capture: elite institutions are so perfectly constructed that anyone who enters them inevitably becomes co-opted, no matter their intentions.
- Tim explains the trap: Democratic leadership offers AOC prominent committee positions and viral moments in exchange for silencing attacks on Pelosi and donors.
- Tim's husband, a congressman in Brazil, entered politics genuinely wanting to help people in the favela where he grew up.
- Congressional leaders offer to pass Tim's husband's community bills only if he votes for corrupt giveaways to their funders and lobbyists.
- The compromise becomes a trap: stand on principle and help nobody, or make the deal and gradually become absorbed into the corrupt system.
- Tim suggests the problem is inherent to human nature itself, and no political system can avoid becoming corrupted this way.
Alexandria Ocasio-CortezChris HayesRachel MaddowNancy PelosiRio de JaneiroTwilight of the ElitesJoe CrowleyBrazil+3 more
- 5 min
They discuss how many politicians may be blackmailed or controlled via scandal (Epstein/Maxwell), Greenwald's view that human nature makes corrupt institutions inevitable, and his belief that flawed but somewhat-good leadership is the most humans can hope for.
10moments
- Tim questions how many elected officials are blackmailed, bribed, or controlled through sex, drugs, or past misdeeds, and how large the scope really is.
- Human nature throughout history is ugly, making it nearly impossible to build politics or institutions free from these pathologies.
- Tim concludes that humans need strong, charismatic leaders willing to do dirty deals—imperfect people who make things somewhat better on balance.
- Guest describes arriving in Rio and immediately feeling it spoke to her soul, convinced she'd never want to travel elsewhere.
- Tim jokes that Joe Rogan convinced them all to move to Austin, a dump in a swamp with only two terrible restaurants.
- Tech people in Austin don't care about culture—they eat macadamia nuts and scheme to choke out remaining freedoms from their estates.
- Tech industry sucked resources from the Bay Area to build high-rises with floating bathtubs while cities collapsed.
- Amazon tribes with no contact with the outside world exist in pristine detachment from society.
- Bolsonaro was funded by lumber and agri-business interests wanting to cut down the Amazon for profit, constantly invading indigenous lands.
- Those same industries brought COVID to indigenous tribes with no healthcare system or immunity from disease exposure.
- 1 min
Greenwald describes falling in love with Brazil and building a life there with his husband and sons, then briefly discusses uncontacted Amazon tribes being wiped out by disease under Bolsonaro's pro-logging policies, with a tangent about Tim's dislike of Austin.
2moments
- Indigenous tribes had higher COVID death rates than non-indigenous people due to their immune systems
- Tim asks about future plans: trips to the US, new books, podcasts, social media empire, or becoming an influencer
- 5 min
Greenwald talks about leaving The Intercept abruptly, the freedom it gave him, his growing Substack, an upcoming new video platform, and his preference for ideologically 'non-binary' spaces like Tucker Carlson's show and Breaking Points.
11moments
- Greenwald discusses his modeling work and career alongside journalism.
- Tim talks about resuming travel and the success of his Substack.
- Only interested in things outside the binary—places like Tucker Carlson and Joe Rogan's show that exist outside dreary left-right fighting.
- Announcing a move to a new video platform outside YouTube while staying on Substack.
- Left The Intercept precipitously after seven years—quit in 24 hours with no planning and it was the best thing that ever happened.
- No longer captive to an institution; burned that world down as he left so he never wonders if he can say something.
- Part of a growing ecosystem of people who want to do interesting things outside institutional constraints.
- Tim argues the goal of comedy and journalism is hitting harder truths found in the spaces between things, not the shallow obvious ones.
- Katie Herzog called him a fat goon on Substack; they're trying to get her deplatformed and want her off every social media.
- Herzog got him trending as transphobic for 48 hours after he cited her article about lesbians disappearing into trans identity.
- Greenwald can be found at greenwell.substack.com and will appear frequently on The Tim Dillon Show.
The InterceptKatie HerzogGlenn GreenwaldTucker CarlsonJoe Rogan
- 1 min
Tim asks Greenwald to say hello to his friend Ida, they riff on getting Katie Herzog deplatformed after she called Tim a 'fat goon,' and they close with jokes about shock collars before signing off.
2moments
- Tim gives a shoutout to Ida.
- Tim recommends Glenn Greenwald's Substack as the segment wraps.