Episode 67 · The GaS Digital / Ray Kump Era
It Ends Bad (with Yannis Pappas)
with Yannis Pappas
Oct 22, 2017 · 59:51 · 18 segments, 131 moments indexed
- 1 min
Cold Open: Third Best Podcast in a Broom Closet
#Tim opens the show with Giannis Pappas, joking about being the third best podcast in New York and recording out of a cramped East Village guest room.
3moments
- 0:14Tim and Ray open the show from New York.
- 0:28They're the third best podcast in New York City.
- 0:42The third best podcast in New York is broadcasting from a broom closet in the East Village.
- 3 min
Tim recalls first seeing Giannis Pappas performing at Bar Four in Park Slope in 2011, and the two riff on how comedy used to require real skill versus today's crowds who clap just to feel part of a scene, plus how New York used to dictate national culture before art became city-of-origin niche bubbles.
9moments
- 0:49Giannis Pappas made Tim feel inadequate when he first saw him perform in 2011, just six months into his own comedy career.
- 1:10A lot of people in comedy are worse than just regular funny people you know outside the industry.
- 1:29Tim points out you don't need to be funny anymore to make it in comedy—warehouse workers can get on Comedy Central now.
- 1:40Giannis ran a show called Bar Four in Park Slope where Tim first saw him perform.
- 2:18Giannis would sometimes do 20 minutes on sneakers between other comics, which wasn't a gimmick or trick.
- 2:29Modern comedy often functions like a magic trick—audiences laugh and move their mouths but nothing funny is actually happening.
- 2:55New York used to dictate taste and culture for the entire country, but that's changed.
- 3:09Comedians from elsewhere found safe places to do their art and clap for each other, creating what counts as funny without native New Yorker approval.
- 3:21Anyone trying to be a rock and roll artist or entertainer used to have to come to New York and impress the natives to make it.
- 2 min
Hollywood, Trump as Media Mogul, and Harvey Weinstein's Open Secret
#They discuss how LA sexually and professionally chews people up (with a Weinstein tangent), then pivot to Trump being a Page Six celebrity whose antics have inadvertently saved Twitter, SNL, and struggling media outlets.
5moments
- 3:51Harvey Weinstein's abuse was an open secret in Hollywood that actors pretended not to understand.
- 4:15Hollywood's critique of Trump ignores that they created him as a celebrity.
- 4:37Trump's mouth functions as his own media platform, turning his personality into content.
- 4:50Trump has saved struggling media outlets like SNL, MSNBC, and the New York Times despite supposedly destroying America.
- 5:25America has become one big entertainment show where everything is theater.
Donald TrumpHarvey WeinsteinSaturday Night LiveComedy CentralRamones
- 2 min
Riffing on how modern people can only "entertain" each other and can't build or fix anything, the conversation swerves into Giannis casually revealing he was shot point-blank during an attempted robbery at a Soho party years ago.
5moments
- 5:45Nobody knows how to build anything anymore; even copywriting is just entertainment.
- 6:01Tim has to call a Mexican handyman to turn the knob on his radiator.
- 6:13All he can do now is podcast, start vendettas on Twitter, and deliver hot takes.
- 6:42The guest has been shot.
- 7:05Shot during an attempted robbery at a dangerous Tuesday night party called Envy in Soho, where a promoter friend walked around with $20,000 in cash and minimal security.
- 4 min
New Yorkers and Bostonians Are the 'Realest' Cities
#They argue that native New Yorkers and Bostonians grow up fast and can smell bullshit, unlike audiences elsewhere who just clap for anyone from their same hometown; touches on Madonna and Blondie's NY come-up.
8moments
- 8:01New York and Boston are the two realest cities because natives become adults at six and develop a bullshit detector.
- 8:36New York has become suburban—excited about Whole Foods and Wegmans arriving, obsessed with Blue Apron cooking.
- 9:06New Yorkers used to go out to diners at 2 a.m.; now it's all condos where you order Seamless and grab food through a slot like a prisoner.
- 9:34Giuliani solved crime, making the city safe but unaffordable—once nobody gets shot, rents skyrocket.
- 10:10People have become boring; too expensive to run venues doing interesting shit, and there's no live music scene anymore.
- 10:58Art and music exist but everything's segmented into niche groups with no communal experience.
- 11:12Comics and musicians used to move from Ohio to New York and the audience was actual New Yorkers who'd judge you.
- 11:38Even transplants became real New Yorkers quickly, not just an audience of fellow Ohioans clapping about being in the same room.
New YorkRudy GiulianiBostonBlondieJelly Bean BenitezBeyoncéKaty PerryMadonna
- 2 min
Giuliani, Seamless, and the Death of Going Out in NYC
#Tim laments that Giuliani-era safety turned New York into unaffordable condos where people order food through a slot instead of going out, killing live music, plays, and communal art scenes in favor of niche audiences.
6moments
- 12:12Most of the best stand-up comedians are from Boston, and it's not a coincidence.
- 12:26Boston people are fucking real, unlike the Ben Affleck Matt Damon types who actually exist in other places.
- 12:41To make Boston audiences laugh, you have to know what you're doing and be real—they have opium problems and need genuine comedy.
- 12:57Audiences in other cities don't need real comedy because they're young, good-looking, have parents paying for everything, and are disconnected from reality.
- 13:18Young comedians' audiences are so coddled by modernity and their parents' money that they haven't suffered yet and just want to feel safe.
- 13:36A comedian who doesn't split the room and says nothing controversial makes audiences feel safe—like being against rape culture, which Tim says he is despite not knowing what it means.
BostonDorchesterBen AffleckMatt Damon
- 4 min
Boston Comedy Rooms vs. Coddled LA Audiences
#They contrast tough, real audiences in Dorchester and Boston clubs with soft, coddled LA crowds who reward inoffensive material, then transition into how LA development executives are rich kids who couldn't cut it in finance or medicine and became talent agents instead.
5moments
- 13:51Tim contrasts New York's obsession with historical landmarks and cultural heritage to LA's indifference to the past.
- 14:59LA development meetings feature only people aged 25 to 40; anyone older either owns a studio or has disappeared.
- 15:42Development people in entertainment genuinely cannot explain why some people make money and succeed in the business.
- 16:02Rich kids who lack discipline to succeed in finance, tech, or law go into entertainment instead because they're good-looking and bored.
- 16:53These development executives want a profile picture on an SNL soundstage to show their wealthy peers back home that they work in show business.
Los AngelesDuke EllingtonEdith WhartonNew Yorkshow businessCAAWMEVillage Vanguard+3 more
- 6 min
Extended riff on Hollywood's development and agent class as rich, plain, sociopathic people who 'sell clowns' (comedians and performers) without any real skill of their own, plus a story about meeting a stone-cold Mark Burnett in Vegas.
10moments
- 17:32Tim reflects on how wealthy someone must be to invest in a clown as a talent prospect, risking the clown's life or career prospects.
- 17:54His parents are still paying for his apartment while he works as an agent representing Tim Dylan, who may make them $7,000 this year.
- 18:30Tim auditioned for SNL in the early 2000s after Bernie Brilstein's son got him the audition through his father's connections.
- 19:03He tanked the SNL audition because he was inexperienced, nervous, and didn't understand the format—he thought stand-up and characters were separate rounds.
- 20:36Lorne Michaels walked in during the audition with two women, making Tim so nervous he screamed and got energetic out of pure anxiety, with Tina Fey and other cast members watching.
- 21:11SNL makes you sign a binding contract before you even audition, which Lorne Michaels implemented to prevent cast members from getting big and leaving.
- 21:37The SNL audition contract offers no compensation and allegedly gives Lorne Michaels 100% of your career earnings if you're selected, something desperate young performers just signed.
- 22:17Entertainment industry outsiders don't understand the desperation and fear pervasive in comedy and TV development—every executive lives in terror of being fired.
- 22:49The industry is perfect for sociopaths because their heartbeat never moves when they stare people down with no emotional reaction.
- 23:14Describing the predatory stare of executives in Hollywood and comparing them to alligators with nothing behind their eyes.
Lorne MichaelsMark BurnettTim DylanBernie BrilsteinJimmy FallonTina Fey
- 3 min
They imagine the alligator-like emotional blankness required to invent Survivor and The Apprentice, tying it to the larger point that Hollywood systems protect and reward people who feel nothing.
8moments
- 23:50Tim connects Harvey Weinstein's decades of assault to a broader system of dominance hierarchy and power structures in society.
- 24:30Weinstein was flagrant about exposing himself to A-list actresses and even his own brother knew and condemned him.
- 24:56Tim argues people sign exploitative contracts because the promise of fame, money, and recognition is what they desperately want.
- 25:27In Hollywood, if you're blacklisted, you have no transferable skills and can't work anywhere else—unlike being a teacher or carpenter.
- 25:44Mark Burnett started as a nanny in LA and became one of Hollywood's most powerful producers, suggesting he's the type who doesn't feel much.
- 26:02Burnett's original show concept was to escalate beyond The Real World by putting people in survival conditions where they might die.
- 26:21Tim describes Burnett's pitch: strip desperate people of food and possessions, give them minimal tools, and see what happens on camera.
- 26:37Survivor was built on putting hungry, TV-obsessed people on an island with nothing, designed to produce maximum desperation and adrenaline.
Harvey WeinsteinMark BurnettSurvivorGwyneth PaltrowThe Real World
- 3 min
Giannis recounts his manager pitching a tasteless 'Son of Harvey' Weinstein sketch after his viral 'Son of Trump' video, illustrating how industry people only think in shapes, types, and opportunistic pop-culture attachment.
8moments
- 27:06Tim's manager pitched "Son of Harvey" after "Son of Trump" worked, suggesting he make fun of sexual assault and rape victims.
- 27:41The manager operates on the principle: whoever falls apart next in the news, Tim becomes their son.
- 27:58Managers understand only shapes and colors, not actual comedy or character work.
- 28:12Tim's manager suggested he audition for SNL and do character impressions despite Tim saying he doesn't do imitations.
- 28:29When asked who he could imitate, the manager listed Chris Christie, Rush Limbaugh, and Adele—all fat people.
- 28:48Sociopathic managers sell vulnerable, feeling comedians—people who notice everything—to an industry of predators.
- 29:13These alligators push comedians around until they go crazy and hang themselves in hotel rooms, and nobody cares.
- 29:32Being an actor isn't hard: just be good-looking while your manager and a studio make a bet at a racket club.
Harvey WeinsteinAdeleChris ChristieRush LimbaughDonald Trump
- 4 min
They joke that most 'actors' like Ice Cube or Mark Wahlberg are manufactured via industry connections rather than craft, contrasted with real actors like Daniel Day-Lewis, and riff on Marilyn Monroe's tragic end and Giannis's underappreciated Mr. Panos character.
8moments
- 29:54Mark Wahlberg is one of America's biggest actors and started as a rapper saying 'come on, come on, feel it.'
- 30:19Two guys at a health club make a bet to turn someone into a star, like how Cesar Millan got famous training dogs.
- 30:47It must be amazing to exist in Hollywood with no conscience or soul, just playing cards with people's lives.
- 31:10The whole business is squeezing as much as possible out of young female comedians before they wash up by 45.
- 31:50Marilyn Monroe was given pills down her throat and couldn't sleep or quiet the memories without modern distractions like cable TV.
- 32:22Tim did character work in clubs, which was hugely popular but people now don't know about it.
- 32:44At Gotham Comedy Club, Tim performs stand-up as himself and crushes, but the audience's friends hang back on their phones completely checked out.
- 33:08The ability some people have to not even be in the room while something great is happening is amazing.
Gotham Comedy ClubMark WahlbergDaniel Day-LewisIce CubeJason BatemanMarilyn MonroeCesar Millan
- 4 min
Discussion of how comedians used to grind on the road for years before success while now social media virality can catapult someone straight into movies, plus how advertisers are shifting to influencer-driven eyeballs as the industry's traditional business model has permanently declined.
8moments
- 33:44Tim learned comedy the old-fashioned way, on the road, before getting successful.
- 34:07Now people go viral on Instagram doing a cop rap, get cast in three movies, and skip the comedy apprenticeship entirely.
- 34:42Advertisers are realizing that an 18-second Instagram video of a fitness model doing squats reaches 40 million viewers.
- 35:19The entertainment business decline is totally irreversible; the music industry already crumbled and now only touring pays.
- 35:52Comedians making $30,000 a month on Patreon now walk into meetings asking studios what they can do for them, inverting the old power dynamic.
- 36:15Movies are the last thing you can't crowdsource; you still have to play the Hollywood game and raise money to make films.
- 36:47Studios make all their money selling blockbuster movies to China and Southeast Asia, casting diverse actors so the films work everywhere.
- 37:30The question is whether watching people go from bars to stadiums reveals something real about success or if 'money changes you' is oversimplified.
- 4 min
Giannis recounts asking Tyler Perry whether success changes people, and Perry's answer that money doesn't change you but exposes who you already were; leads into a riff on Seinfeld and Chappelle still grinding stand-up despite massive wealth.
9moments
- 37:54Tim interviewed Tyler Perry on his old Fusion show and found him to be one of the nicest guys he'd ever met.
- 38:13After the camera stopped rolling, Tim asked Tyler Perry if money and success change people the way people claim they do.
- 38:38Money brings out your rawest self because you're now enabled to fulfill your deepest personality drives without the social constraints of needing things.
- 39:19In business, everybody eventually gets exposed for who they are, though some people die without ever knowing the horrible things they did.
- 39:38Stand-up comedy is one of the closest things to a pure meritocracy, second only to sports.
- 40:06Even hacky comedians can be hilarious and fill stadiums if they're funny enough as performing vehicles.
- 40:46Tim worries that success might eventually make comedy feel monotonous or boring, but he hasn't reached that point yet.
- 41:02Comedians like Chappelle, Rock, and Seinfeld all remained hungry despite their success, with Seinfeld recently doing new material with act-outs in his sixties.
- 41:54Tim compares comedy to sculpture: comedians are sculptors of words, crafting jokes as an art form regardless of wealth.
- 4 min
Comedy as Meritocracy in a Civilization Past Its Peak
#They argue stand-up is one of the last pure meritocracies, then zoom out into a bit about humanity/America being 'past peak,' overpopulation, sushi and iPhones everywhere, and Elon Musk trying to escape to Mars.
10moments
- 42:18Comedy gets criticized like politics because it shapes culture, yet that same culture suggests our empire is past its peak.
- 42:28Tim argues civilization is in inevitable decline—not paranoia, just observable fact.
- 42:57Elon Musk wants to go to Mars not from curiosity but because we need to escape and start over with twelve genius people.
- 43:11Every innovation is now cosmetic: the new iPhone has a slightly sharper picture, but we've told every story and invented everything.
- 43:32You can buy fresh tuna at a Walgreens—we've reached peak civilization and now it's over.
- 43:53America is like the Roman Empire past its comfort level, unable to defend itself anymore.
- 44:08Facebook is like a community college freshman chat room where everyone's discovering ideas for the first time.
- 44:29People preach philosophies they can't sustain in their own lives after experiencing nothing.
- 44:54Human intelligence varies wildly—from godlike genius to barely human—which makes the species completely ungovernable.
- 45:56Tim pitches putting people on an island as a nihilistic solution, echoing Bill Hicks' worldview.
Elon MuskDwayne ReedMike PenceAyn RandThomas MalthusBill Hicks
- 5 min
Giannis reflects on the inevitable grim ends of showbiz (citing Sunset Boulevard and a John Prine-style boxer ballad), his fear of losing his sanity in LA, and a story about his manager coldly saying 'there's no crying in comedy' after young comics bombed at Montreal.
9moments
- 46:39Tim knows comedy always ends badly no matter where, like a boxer or starlet who never learns to quit.
- 46:52Sunset Boulevard is the realest thing to him because it's about mutual desperation—she shoots him, he ends up in a pool.
- 47:39John Gawker's 'Dream Street' captures how boxers never leave the ring before it's too late, and that's how comedy ends too.
- 48:17Tim avoids LA for his sanity because he's too sensitive and already living on the edge.
- 48:58At Montreal, his manager's response to kids crying at their failed showcase: 'There's no crying in comedy,' then just walks away.
- 49:30That moment captures 20 or 30 years of the entertainment business—pure shepherding through nonsense.
- 50:01Not all comics have to end badly if they build a life outside the business.
- 50:24Chappelle disappeared at the height of success because he's a real comic who rejected Hollywood rather than lose his mind like Martin Lawrence or Cat Williams.
- 50:49Los Angeles isn't reality, which is why it destroys people who can't tell the difference.
Dave ChappelleAndrew Lloyd WebberCat WilliamsMartin LawrenceLos AngelesSunset BoulevardMontreal Comedy FestivalDream Street+3 more
- 3 min
Comparing LA's enabling industry (food testers, costume designers propping up delusions) to his mother's schizophrenia, Tim connects Hollywood megalomania to mental illness, warning that fame convinces people they're special until they're forgotten like Red Skelton.
6moments
- 50:59Tim stayed with a producer in LA named Michelle who sleeps next to her Emmy and has meetings all day on projects that mostly go nowhere.
- 51:30The city runs on institutionalized madness where people are hired to prop up delusions—like a food tester for someone paranoid about poisoning.
- 52:20Megalomania is a defining feature of mental illness, and LA's economy is built on validating these delusions instead of reality-checking them.
- 52:54Red Skelton was the biggest comedian in America and nobody remembers him now—you're nothing to this planet, less important than grass.
- 53:18Tim's advice: surround yourself with people who don't want attention, because constant exposure to ego-driven people destroys your sense of reality.
- 53:48Stand-up comedy only attracts two types: extremely sensitive great people or complete sociopaths who become bigger dictators.
Red SkeltonMichellePhil Hartman
- 3 min
Both comedians share how they get an adrenaline/heroin-like high or sense of peace from a good set, and agree the key to survival in comedy is surrounding yourself with people who don't crave attention rather than other performers.
9moments
- 54:13Tim describes performing comedy like being a dictator commanding people's reactions, claiming Hitler would have been great at standup and sold out Madison Square Garden.
- 54:36Getting an adrenaline high from comedy that feels like heroin when it goes well, but anger and withdrawal when the set bombs.
- 54:53Feeling at peace only when a set is going well—the only time serenity arrives.
- 55:12Standing on stage in Cleveland in front of strangers is the only place he feels at home, more fulfilling than any apartment or house.
- 55:49Standup comedy saves guys like them who float around noticing things others don't, and the stage is where he first felt completely sane.
- 56:15Tim admits vulnerability to ego corruption—if someone feeds his ego in Hollywood, he'd lose his mind and think he's Jesus or Hitler.
- 56:38The strategy to survive emotionally: surround yourself with normal people who don't need attention, people with no childhood ego that requires feeding.
- 57:00Normal people understand sacrifices, don't chase the dragon of addiction, just want to raise kids, read, sit in silence, and live boring lives.
- 57:22Closing LA dismissal: telling someone to stay in touch because maybe this business isn't for them.
- 2 min
Tim thanks Giannis, lets him plug Bay Ridge Boys and his podcasts, plugs his own Vice Sports videos, reads a flattering Time Out New York review calling him a 'delightfully surly' host, and closes the show.
5moments
- 57:38Tim presents the choice between fame or sanity, admitting he's at the point where he doesn't know which one he wants.
- 58:08Giannis plugs Bay Ridge Boys, the new web series with second episodes coming out on Facebook and YouTube.
- 58:42Tim thanks Time Out New York for reviewing the show and calling him a "delightfully surly stand-up" who plays "one delicious devil's advocate."
- 59:07Time Out describes him as "the most poignant political commentator" and a "gay Long Island loud mouth."
- 59:24Tim dismisses the negative aspects with "look he's disgusting but it's radio, who cares?" and notes his manager would say they got eyeballs on it.
Giannis PabasTime Out New YorkBay Ridge BoysThe Rigorous Podcast