Episode 38 · The GaS Digital / Ray Kump Era
Boss of Bosses (with Russ Baker)
with Russ Baker
Mar 28, 2017 · 1:05:51 · 16 segments, 128 moments indexed
- 1 min
Opening network branding for Tim Dillon's Going To Hell on GaS Digital Network, with the show's tagline about examining billionaires, dictators, and CEOs.
3moments
- 0:14Tim introduces the show's premise: taking a critical look at people society has decided to hate—billionaires, dictators, CEOs.
- 0:28Tim argues there are bad people in the world, and thanks God for them, asking what good would be without evil.
- 0:41Co-host Ray Kump joins the episode.
- 1 min
Tim introduces co-host Ray Kump and returning guest Russ Baker, author of Family of Secrets and founder of WhoWhatWhy.org, to discuss a viral 6,500-word investigative piece on Trump, the Russian underworld, and the FBI.
4moments
- 0:44Tim introduces Russ Baker, author of Family of Secrets and founder of WhoWhatWhy.org.
- 1:01The WhoWhatWhy article on Trump's ties to Russian figures is being widely shared and generating strong reader response.
- 1:39The piece details relationships between Trump, Russian underworld figures, politicians, and examines why the FBI may be withholding information.
- 2:00Tim deadpans that he's always found the FBI to be straightforward and forthcoming, expressing mock amazement they'd be reluctant to disclose.
- 2 min
Tim explains he initially dismissed Russia-Trump narratives as post-election grief and deep-state Cold War instigation, but Russ agrees the topic deserves an open-minded second look given what they found.
6moments
- 2:13Tim initially dismissed the Russian narrative as a way for people to process the shock of the 2016 election results.
- 2:36The show has argued that the intelligence apparatus was pushing a Russia narrative to instigate a new Cold War.
- 3:00Upon reading the article more carefully, Tim realized the situation was more complicated than dismissing it outright.
- 3:12The guest was wary of efforts to stir up traditional U.S.-Russia rivalry after the election.
- 3:26Whoa Why has reported on Russia playing a somewhat constructive role as a counterweight to U.S. military interventionism.
- 3:56Both Tim and the guest initially skeptical of the Russia narrative, but evidence made them reconsider their position.
Whoa Whyintelligence apparatusRussiaRussian narrativeDonald Trump
- 3 min
Discussion of how Trump Tower's condo structure attracted Russian oligarchs and mobsters, including a mob-connected woman and a murderer Trump sat with in person, leading into the introduction of Felix Sater, a Russian-born ex-con who stabbed a man with a margarita glass and ran pump-and-dump stock schemes.
7moments
- 4:20Trump Tower's co-op competitors on Fifth and Park Avenues require financial documents, but newer condos attract people with questionable money sources — Russian oligarchs, gangsters, many later arrested for nefarious activities.
- 5:04Felix Sater worked closely with Trump and linked all these sketchy connections together, though Trump now claims he'd have trouble identifying him in a room.
- 5:36Trump's statement about having trouble identifying someone could technically mean he'd get in trouble for identifying them — a distinction that changes the meaning entirely.
- 5:51Trump's phrasing about having no business in Russia doesn't preclude having business in other former Soviet republics or through partners.
- 6:18Trump Tower's top three floors were his triplex, with interesting characters occupying the floors directly below.
- 6:50One tenant was the girlfriend of the mobbed-up concrete union boss — the same union that built Trump Tower — with unclear sources of wealth buying multiple apartments.
- 7:06The girlfriend wanted to combine her apartments and install a swimming pool, and Trump apparently helped her get approval.
Trump TowerDonald TrumpFelix SaterFifth AvenueGeorge H. W. Bush
- 4 min
Russ details the history of Soviet-era organized crime, its emigration to the US via Jackson-Vanik, its cooperation with the Italian mafia and boiler-room stock scams, and introduces boss-of-bosses Semyon Mogilevich and his alleged closeness to Putin and the KGB/FSB.
8moments
- 7:19Trump sat at a conference table with a mobster while the man counted out $200,000 in cash to make a deal.
- 8:02Tim argues mobsters were drawn to Trump Tower because of the bling factor—a gold building and a golden man attracted people who liked gold chains.
- 8:31Trump would have to be naive not to know real estate is used for money laundering and not to question where suddenly wealthy Soviet émigrés get the money to buy apartments.
- 8:51Felix Sater, born in Russia with a Ukrainian father, emigrated to Brooklyn and stabbed someone in the face with a margarita glass in 1991 before becoming a federal informant.
- 9:36The so-called Russian mob is actually mobsters from all former Soviet republics and Eastern Europe, many of whom were already in Soviet jails under the communist system.
- 10:04Soviet officials tolerated organized crime because people in power needed mobsters to move their own ill-gotten money and handle protection disputes.
- 10:37When the Soviet Union collapsed, the floodgates opened and these mobsters emigrated, particularly to the United States, many having been released from jails by the Soviet government under pressure.
- 11:17These Soviet mobsters weren't going to Yale or getting hired by Goldman Sachs; instead they fell into criminal circles and began working with the Italian mob, La Cosa Nostra.
Donald TrumpFelix SaterRoy CohnRussian mobJackson-Vanik Amendment
- 5 min
They discuss Mogilevich's reputed reach (nuclear trafficking claims, banking scandals like Bank of New York), the concept of an "overworld" mixing gangsters, bankers and politicians, and how the FBI's pursuit of Mogilevich led them to flip Felix Sater.
10moments
- 12:00Russian émigré financial wizards couldn't speak English properly but found their way into boiler room pump-and-dump schemes, targeting unsophisticated investors.
- 12:43Mobsters used these operations to defraud elderly people and others with penny stock scams, knowing the stocks were worthless.
- 13:07The FBI eventually became aware of Russian organized crime, though historically the bureau has been slow to recognize threats—Hoover himself denied organized crime existed for 30 years.
- 13:49The pump-and-dump schemes were allegedly run by Semyon Mogilevich, known as the Fat Man or the Brainy Don, a figure straight out of central casting.
- 14:21Russian organized crime differs from other mafias because it has substantial state backing, making it almost a mafia state with government actors embedded in criminal enterprises.
- 14:56Mogilevich and Putin are very close, and the Russian mob maintains a symbiotic relationship with the state dating back to KGB involvement.
- 15:40When KGB and GRU agents lost their jobs after the Soviet collapse, many ended up in organized crime or were rehired by the government—a revolving door like Goldman Sachs and the U.S. government.
- 16:09Russian oligarchs and state insiders need to launder obscene sums of money out of the country, and real estate is the best vehicle for parking it.
- 16:22Money launderers also use shell companies with massive paper losses to obscure the source and destination of illicit funds.
- 16:38The FBI considers Mogilevich the boss of bosses, with analysts saying he has the capability to affect the world economy.
Semyon MogilevichRussian mobDonald TrumpVladimir PutinFelix SaterGoldman SachsFBITrump administration
- 4 min
Sater cooperates with the FBI to avoid a $40 million liability and jail time, his record gets sealed, he changes the spelling of his name, and he joins Bayrock, the real estate firm that partners with Trump on projects like Trump SoHo, funded by murky former-Soviet money.
7moments
- 17:15Tim compares the Russian mob's reach to a James Bond villain network operating across banks and legitimate businesses.
- 17:43The Russian mob was better than the Italian mafia at infiltrating legitimate business and relationships with major banks.
- 18:13At the apex of society, gangsters, bankers, and politicians sit at the same table together.
- 18:29Tim distinguishes between the underworld and what he calls the overworld—legitimate players with criminal tendencies who make or are friends with lawmakers.
- 18:59The FBI determined Felix Sater was involved in operations orchestrated at a higher level by Mogilievich.
- 20:00Felix Sater made a deal with the FBI, offering to cooperate and inform on figures like Mogilievich.
- 20:33Sater's motivation for turning informant stemmed from personal liability of approximately forty million dollars.
Felix SaterRussian MafiaBank of New YorkMughlievichDepartment of JusticeFBIWhite RockState Street+1 more
- 5 min
Russ explains Sater's deferred sentencing, his FBI reporting on nuclear trafficking claims, his closeness with Trump (including chaperoning Don Jr. and Ivanka in Moscow), and the strange $135 million Trump reported as income in 2005 despite Atlantic City's collapse.
10moments
- 20:48US government suppressed information about Trump's financial dealings to allow Sater to conduct business ventures.
- 21:26Sater reported to the FBI daily and was described as extremely important for terrorism, national security, and organized crime intelligence.
- 22:13Bayrock, a real estate firm run by Sater, moved into Trump Tower and partnered with Trump on projects like the SoHo Hotel.
- 22:53Tim questions whether Bayrock was essentially a money laundering operation for Soviet ill-gotten gains.
- 23:21Bayrock received funding from an Icelandic company close to Putin and from people in Kazakhstan with money of unknown origin.
- 23:48Trump was in deep financial trouble after his failed Atlantic City ventures and banks stopped working with him.
- 24:43Trump reported earning $135 million in 2005 as salary—more than billionaire Robert Mercer made in his good years.
- 25:07This was actual reported income, not equity appreciation like Gates or other wealthy figures typically earn.
- 25:30With Atlantic City collapsed, the source of Trump's $135 million income remains unexplained.
- 25:43Tim connects the dots between Trump's financial trouble, Bayrock's Soviet-connected funding, and his mysterious $135 million income.
- 4 min
Explanation of how a Bayrock employee stumbled on Sater's sealed FBI cooperation documents, hired attorney Fred Oberlander, and how the government used a rare "hyper injunction" to bar the lawyers from even informing Congress.
8moments
- 26:08Trump's name on buildings is mostly a licensing deal—he receives fees and sometimes equity, but isn't actually constructing or managing the projects himself.
- 26:43Many of Bayrock's projects that Felix Seder promoted around the world never made money, yet the people involved lived well—raising questions about money laundering.
- 27:15Seder couldn't have entered these deals as a convicted felon, so the government sealed his criminal record to allow him to conduct business.
- 28:09Seder held 63% of Bayrock despite being masked as just one guy among many, and Trump clearly knew he was the real operator behind the scenes.
- 28:35The government's interest in letting Seder continue earning money after flipping was likely to keep him functional as an informant, similar to how the mafia lets cooperators stay in the game.
- 29:07Seder changed the spelling of his name from Sater to Satter so word searches wouldn't connect him to his criminal past.
- 29:17During his period as an informant, Seder and Trump became close enough to travel to Moscow together looking for business opportunities, bringing Donald Jr. and Ivanka along.
- 29:44Donald Jr. stated in an interview that most of the Trump Organization's money was coming from Russia.
Donald TrumpFelix SederDonald Jr.BayrockIvankaWoody Bulger
- 4 min
Comparison to Whitey Bulger's FBI handling, the story of mob enforcer Ivankov hiding in Trump Tower and Trump's Atlantic City casino, and the revelation that two DOJ prosecutors who sought leniency for Sater later became his defense lawyers at Morgan Lewis.
9moments
- 29:55FBI allowed Ivankov to operate for years while committing countless murders in exchange for information.
- 30:17Tim notes it's unusual the FBI had someone dead to rights yet still allowed them to commit additional crimes.
- 30:28The FBI's pattern of recruiting informants to infiltrate mosques and stir up activity, citing the 1993 World Trade Center bombing as an example.
- 31:18Trump's relationships with Eastern Bloc mobsters, Putin ties, and the FBI's broader accountability problem all nest in one larger mystery.
- 31:57Trump's relationship with Sater would never have surfaced if a Bayrock employee hadn't stumbled upon Sater's FBI cooperation agreement.
- 32:25Attorney Fred Oberlander deconstructed Bayrock's Byzantine financial structure, revealing alleged money laundering from the former Soviet Union.
- 33:05The Bayrock employee discovered he was working for a convicted felon with mob ties and financial scams.
- 33:52The employee consulted a lawyer because knowingly working with a criminal without reporting it could make him liable for everything.
- 34:21Lawyers who handled the case have been prevented from talking about what they discovered.
FBIBayrockDonald TrumpSaterFred OberlanderWhitey BulgerBoston Marathon bombingVladimir Putin+1 more
- 5 min
Discussion of a DOJ official who both sought leniency for Sater and later became involved in removing Mogilevich from the FBI's most wanted list, plus the revelation that Trump hired the same firm, Morgan Lewis, to vet his own finances despite its ties to Sater.
9moments
- 34:58A hyper injunction was issued to gag lawyers from discussing what they found about Felix Sater and FBI operations.
- 35:33A federal appeals court in 2010 secretly ordered an attorney not to inform Congress about Sater, possibly the first hyper injunction in American history.
- 36:46Semyon Mogilevich, the Russian mob boss, got a judge in Russia to release an emissary named Ivankov who then traveled to the United States.
- 37:16The FBI got word that Ivankov had arrived in the country and launched a manhunt for him.
- 37:27They discovered Ivankov was living in Trump Tower, but he vanished before they could move on him.
- 37:45Ivankov was tracked down at the Trump Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City.
- 38:20During Sater's sentencing in a closed proceeding, prosecutors told the judge Sater had been a tremendously important asset for national security and organized crime investigations.
- 38:57Two U.S. attorneys from the Eastern District of Manhattan who prosecuted mob cases then left government and joined Morgan Lewis law firm as Felix Sater's lawyers.
- 39:24The same prosecutors who worked in government to get Sater leniency then became his private attorneys at Morgan Lewis.
Federal Bureau of InvestigationFelix SaterMorgan LewisSemion MogilevichTrump TowerVyacheslav IvankovTrump Taj Mahal
- 5 min
Speculative discussion about whether WikiLeaks and Snowden are Russian operations, Julian Assange's personality and reputation, DNC hacking uncertainty, and whether Trump himself could be viewed as an intelligence asset.
10moments
- 41:11Ray raises whether Trump could be a Russian asset, given what they know about his associate Felix Sater.
- 41:39Trump has always maintained a relationship with the FBI, knowing they had wiretaps in Trump Tower during mob arrests in his building.
- 42:03If Trump maintains relationships with the FBI, they would want information from him—suggesting he's been able to operate unfettered.
- 42:17Felix Sater has been an FBI asset for over 20 years, but the full scope of what happened during that time remains unclear.
- 42:37The guest questions whether there's been substantial prosecution against the Russian mob despite decades of FBI involvement.
- 43:03Robert I. Friedman, a Village Voice investigative reporter, wrote about the Russian mob and became a target of mobster Semyon Mogilevich.
- 43:15Mogilevich allegedly put a $100,000 hit on Friedman, who died years later of a rare blood disease.
- 43:40Since Friedman's death, no one has really followed Russian mob investigations in a conclusive, dot-connecting way.
- 43:58Tim asks whether Russian mob violence effectively curtails journalism on the subject.
- 44:16The article explores James Comey as a fascinating character whose actions warrant close examination.
Donald TrumpRobbie FriedmanRussian mobFelix SaterJames ComeySemeno Gilovich
- 4 min
Details on former FBI agents running Trump's private security detail (the "Red Guard"), why mainstream outlets like the Times and Post never dug this deep, and why complex investigative work like this rarely gets replicated by big media.
8moments
- 44:38Comey's handling of the Clinton email investigation appeared to show favoritism toward one candidate over another, Tim observes.
- 44:58Morgan Lewis, a law firm representing Felix Sater's interests before a judge, has 40 lawyers and a large practice in Moscow.
- 45:33Trump hired Morgan Lewis—the same firm representing Sater—to handle scrutiny of his finances, taxes, and ethics as president.
- 46:16Having Morgan Lewis represent both Felix Sater and Trump creates what appears to be a conflict of interest.
- 46:56Tim asks whether WikiLeaks functions as a Russian operation or if that's too far a jump.
- 47:25Snowden was given asylum in Moscow with few other options, and that doesn't necessarily mean Russia and WikiLeaks are working together.
- 48:00Hillary Clinton called for Julian Assange to be brought to the United States and joked about droning him to prove how tough she was.
- 48:26WikiLeaks released important information, including a video of US helicopters killing civilians—material that was genuinely useful to the public.
Morgan LewisDonald TrumpJames ComeyJulian AssangeWikiLeaksFelix SaterHillary ClintonEdward Snowden
- 6 min
Discussion of media dependence on government access limiting real reporting, competing theories on why CIA factions oppose Trump, and how post-9/11 counterterrorism concerns may have kept Sater useful and untouchable.
11moments
- 49:11Tim's guest describes the WikiLeaks figure as imperious and difficult, but notes that people willing to risk everything may not be concerned with popularity.
- 49:45The question of whether the DNC hack was actually a Russian operation remains hard to know, despite confident assertions.
- 50:18FBI's New York office had close ties to Felix Sater, who later ran something described variously as Republican or Russian operations for Trump.
- 50:40The guest's editors rejected publishing information about Sater's large donation to Trump, saying there was already enough material.
- 51:03Former FBI agents who ran Sater left government and created a private security company whose primary client was candidate Donald Trump.
- 51:37Trump brought his private security detail into the White House very controversially, and these former FBI people may still be there.
- 51:51Tim notes the private security force protecting Trump is called the Red Guard, an extraordinary arrangement.
- 52:23Trump has advisors who point to security failures during the Kennedy assassination and other presidential shooting attempts as justification for extra protection layers.
- 52:57Hillary's campaign could have theoretically exposed this information, but the guest doubts campaign strategists and pollsters actually saw these patterns amid the chaos.
- 54:12The establishment media turned overtly against Trump after he got the Republican nomination, yet never deployed information about FBI connections or Felix Sater to take him down earlier.
- 54:33Tim wonders why the media and establishment didn't use available information as ammunition during their long effort to take Trump down.
Donald TrumpFelix SaterWikiLeaksHillary ClintonKennedy assassinationDNCSecret Service
- 6 min
Russ explains spy-craft terminology (double/triple/quadruple agents) and reveals the January 2017 meeting where a pro-Moscow Ukrainian lawmaker brought a Putin-backed peace proposal to Michael Cohen and Felix Sater in a New York hotel.
8moments
- 54:55Tim acknowledges the media isn't all incompetent, but most reporters lack the intellectual capacity for genuinely difficult investigative work.
- 55:17The article got record traffic at whoWuWhy.org, with important people calling it one of the biggest stories in years, yet major newsroom reporters dismiss it as incomprehensible.
- 56:00Media figures write what government sources dictate because they depend on access to FBI, CIA, and NSA beat sources for their coverage.
- 56:44Tim asks whether the CIA's conflict with Trump stems from genuine national security concerns or opposition to ending the perpetual war machine.
- 57:21The CIA is not monolithic—the relevant factions exist at lower levels and connect to banking and military-industrial complex interests, not the agency director.
- 58:12After 9/11, Seder was likely used as an asset in the climate of counter-terrorism, traveling to the former Soviet Union while technically free despite near-criminal status.
- 58:47Putin apparently allowed Seder to move freely—a mystery explained only by the possibility that he was some kind of asset worth protecting, not eliminating.
- 59:33Double agents, triple agents, and quadruple agents create murky counter-intelligence histories where certainty is impossible about who really works for whom.
CIAwhoWhatWhymilitary-industrial complexFBIBarack ObamaDonald TrumpHillaryIvankov+7 more
- 6 min
Russ summarizes the full Trump-Sater-FBI-Russia timeline, plugs WhoWhatWhy.org donations and Family of Secrets, and Tim closes with thanks and show plugs.
10moments
- 1:00:33Tim recaps the January 2017 meeting between a pro-Moscow Ukrainian parliament member, Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen, and Felix Sater to discuss a Putin-backed peace proposal on Russian sanctions.
- 1:01:47Felix Sater, supposedly out of the picture years earlier, was meeting with Trump's personal lawyer to pass along what appeared to be Putin's negotiating terms to the Trump administration.
- 1:02:28The FBI may not fully understand what happened in these dealings, with different agents potentially realizing they got played by the people involved.
- 1:02:44Russ Baker explains that whowatwhy.org is a real nonprofit funded entirely by listener donations, with no corporate advertisers or interests influencing their reporting.
- 1:03:42Trump was bankrupt in the 1980s and most likely received a capital infusion from Russia before working on high-profile projects with a convicted felon the FBI was using as an informant.
- 1:04:12After the New York Times exposed the felon's criminal past and he stepped down in 2007, Felix Sater remained in the building one floor below Trump's offices with his own business cards identifying him as Special Advisor to Donald Trump.
- 1:04:43Once Trump won the presidency, Sater remained in tight with the president despite his supposed role involving knowledge of mob and Putin-related matters, potentially functioning as a double agent the whole time.
- 1:05:06Tim promotes Russ Baker's book Family of Secrets and mentions an upcoming Kennedy book Baker is working on, encouraging listeners to visit whoatwhite.org and donate.
- 1:05:29Tim asks listeners to rate and review the show on iTunes, visit timdillacomedy.com for live shows, and thanks Russ Baker for coming on as a guest.
- 1:05:41Russ Baker wraps up by expressing his appreciation for the conversation and audience.
Donald TrumpFelix SaterRuss BakerMichael CohenVladimir Putin