Interview · moment 9 of 10

Nationalism, Migration, and Europe's Fraying Order

from We're Toast with Russ Baker · #118

Audio-only archive episode — no video to seek.

8 min

Guest

They discuss Steve Bannon's European tour, rising authoritarian nationalist figures worldwide, and a nuanced take on why fear of demographic and economic change (using shifting neighborhoods as an analogy) drives people toward extremism, plus the failure of elites to represent citizens.

In this bit9 moments
  • 40:46Change is deeply unsettling, and dismissing people who fear it as racist is a mistake Democrats make.
  • 41:17Europe faces assimilation problems that America doesn't have; immigrants there don't integrate the way they do in the US.
  • 41:48White flight from neighborhoods is real, but so is gentrification destroying those same neighborhoods later.
  • 42:39People are naturally self-interested; elites in charge have lost connection to what citizens actually need.
  • 43:53Steve Bannon fascinates as a figure who went from Goldman Sachs to Breitbart to reshaping global politics.
  • 44:47Populist strongmen—Hitler, Trump, Brazil's kooky presidential candidate—emerge as reactions when traditional excellence fails.
  • 45:51There's an inevitability to leaders like Obama or Roosevelt who excel from youth, versus the schlubby guys who come from nowhere.
  • 46:35Stephen Miller, whose teacher said he ate glue, became a top presidential advisor—showing improbable characters always rise.
  • 47:09Media have limited bandwidth and choose which problems to focus on; vote suppression matters more than following Steve Bannon's movements.

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