Interview · moment 11 of 20

Carl Jung's Read on Dulles, and Taking Down McCarthy

from Slumbering Herds of Cattle · #12

Audio-only archive episode — no video to seek.

4 min

Guest

Talbot discusses Carl Jung's inability to psychologically read Dulles, Dulles's chilling quote about watching 'mice' get caught in traps, and how Dulles was actually the first to strike a real blow against Joe McCarthy by refusing to let CIA deputies testify.

In this bit9 moments
  • 30:17Carl Jung analyzed Hitler and Mussolini but couldn't get a read on Dulles, finding him impossible to crack emotionally.
  • 30:57Dulles told his mistress Mary Bankroll he enjoyed watching enemies walk into traps like mice getting their necks snapped.
  • 31:30Dulles was instrumental in bringing about McCarthy's destruction and stopping his inquiry into the CIA.
  • 32:05The Army-McCarthy hearings are commonly thought to have ended McCarthy, but the CIA was actually the first institution that really bit back.
  • 32:40McCarthy alleged the CIA was infiltrated by communists and demanded the agency's people testify before his committee.
  • 32:59Allen Dulles refused to let CIA deputies testify, standing his ground unlike his brother John Foster Dulles at State Department.
  • 33:27Dulles's refusal to allow CIA testimony may have been unconstitutional, as the Senate had constitutional power to investigate.
  • 33:53The CIA had dirt on McCarthy's alcoholism and used hardball tactics, possibly even threatening his life to stop his investigation.
  • 34:04Intelligence agencies made clear to McCarthy that if he wanted to play hardball with the CIA, they were ready to do the same.
Mentioned here

CIACarl JungAllen DullesJoe McCarthyBenito MussoliniAdolf HitlerMary BancroftJohn Foster Dulles

All 20 moments in this episode →